MIB packages v.s. other community packages

[tarakbumba]

Hi. I appreciate your work. Getting latest kernels, newest packages and KDE desktop is a good work. I need to say you, mib guys are one of the main package source of many Mandriva running systems. Thanks for you all.


However, i have seen that some of the mib packages are direct rebuild of existing other community packages. Those packages neither new versions of software or backported releases or package for new Mandriva releases nor patched packages.

Just take srpm from other community repo and run rpmbuild --rebuild xxy.src.rpm and put it on mib repository work. One of the examples are gtk-theme-greenie-collection package. Rpm changelog is just - By MIB. and it repackaged only 5 days after initial rpm released on Mandriva Turkiye repository.

There are more than one package like this. I wonder why you are doing this? It is a disrespectful behaviour to other communities and packagers. It is insulting people. It is bad.

If mib wants to mirroring other community repos or include others work on their repos just ask them. May be mib and other community repos unite someday like rpmfusion on fedora and work hard for Mandriva.

[tobal]

Mmmm.... you are a fool man. Your spec files are free software, so I can use this software in freedom way, if you don't like, so, I'm NOT sorry about it.
Many times I use Debian software to improve Mandriva rebuilds, in fact, YOU have used Debian patches in YOUR spec files and surely, you don't may permissions to DEBIAN packagers, so you make the same.

Oh, I NEVER use this:

Code: Select all

rpmbuild --rebuild xxy.src.rpm

I always use this one:

Code: Select all

rpmbuild --ba --target zzzz xxxyyy.spec

I always read and test all spec files, patches including. In fact, I've modified some patch made by you and fix bugs in your spec files, but I'm not so proud than you and I don't have written my name on them.

But not worry man, I'll never use your spec files never more, I'll rebuild my own spec files almost they tell us the similar things that your spec files, but without appears your name and email in the Changelog section, actually they appear ones.

You have used some of my spec files to build packages but not appears my name on them, and I don't have told you anything, because I'm not so proud than you. I prefer share my works with people, and I feel glad if my poor works are useful to other people, but I detest proudly feeling.

Bye.

[NicCo]

................................
...gtk-theme-greenie-collection package.
Rpm changelog is just - By MIB. and it repackaged only 5 days after initial rpm released on Mandriva Turkiye repository.

There are more than one package like this. I wonder why you are doing this? It is a disrespectful behaviour to other communities and packagers. It is insulting people. It is bad.
................................

Here the SRPM, so everyone can see:
http://mib.pianetalinux.org/MIB/2010.1/ ... .1.src.rpm

I think you are a little wrong:
this is the changelog part in gtk-theme-greenie-collection.spec...

As you can see the changelog is quite respectifull of GPL with all the credits given!

%changelog
* Sun Aug 15 2010 Cristobal Lopez <lopeztobal@gmail.com> 1.0-2mib2010.1
- By MIB.

* Tue Aug 10 2010 Atilla ÖNTAŞ <atilla_ontas@mandriva.org> 1.0-1mvt2010.1
+ Initial RPM

bye, NicCo

[astragalo]

Hi tarakbumba and welcom between us.

I do not see i686 package in the Turkiye repo.

The MIB standard arch is i686 for 32bit, not think that is a valid reason for a rebuild?

I have used many times srpm of other distro and repo, you do not have it done. This is the GPL.

The idea unite repo is good, maybe is the time of talk of it and not of ghost problem.

Bye.

Astragalo

[tarakbumba]

Yes i' m a very fool man. Thank you! You quickly noticed this!

I do not mention anything about GPL violance. Yep all other community packages are GPL and everyone free to use, modify, share them. I'm a "fool" lawyer in my personal life and i well know about licenses. That is not what i'm trying to tell you. GPL is not our subject. Our subject in this thread is behaving respectful to others. Thats all.

If another packager modifies something in srpm or spec file and corrected some mistakes it is ok. Rediffing a patch, new version of software, backporting a package that is not backported by distro or another packagers, etc. it is ok. But for the sake of distsuffix, like mib,mvt,mud etc. it is not an acceptable behaviour for a packager, a community and a user.

Look at those packages. For example there are kde3 packages that Flossie and mvt builds in mib repository. They are all ok for me. Because there aren't any 2010.1 version of them at least for 64bit builds. I have no word to them. That is a good work by mib and i'm glad to see those packages are shared on such a big community. But for other packages like greenie-collection, i already tell my word.

That kind of behaviour is disrespectful to other communities and packagers. What happening here is, just upgrading package's release number and forcing people (users those have both mib and other community repositories as urpmi medium) to upgrade with same thing. Do you see why this behaviour is bad for users?

For i686 packages, if those packages are not noarch packages i just tell my thanks here but unfortunetly they are not.

Also, if any spec file and patch have bugs you can always tell it to the packager and offer help to fix those bugs. You have packager's e-mail adreess. It is the way how free software system works. Is it an impossible request?


I always believe good relationship between Mandriva local communities is the way of improving distro and may be one day if Mandriva dead a key for a new hope.

I think community packagers should unite in a common ground to work together. By this way there are no duplicating afforts and users will know there are high quality of packages. I think we should talk on this with you, mvt, mud, mandriva greece community and others.

As a result of those opinons, MVT provides a few KDE packages because MIB and others already doing great job for KDE users. MVT tries to focus on less supported (either by distro or other communities) areas such as Islamic software, Turkish related tools and mostly GNOME desktop.

Thank you for replying my questions. Reading my comments and even calling me "fool"...

[tarakbumba]

You have used some of my spec files to build packages but not appears my name on them, and I don't have told you anything, because I'm not so proud than you. I prefer share my works with people, and I feel glad if my poor works are useful to other people, but I detest proudly feeling.

Bye.

Which packages and which spec files are used? I' ll look at them and immediately remove them if your name is removed or there is no any improvements, fixes on them by me?

I can guarentee you, if your name is remved, it is done by an accident. Otherwise it is an awful thing for me. Blame on me!!

[dubigrasu]

Mmmm.... you are a fool man.

Tobal, I hope you didn't really meant that, it sounds really bad and I hope it was just a bad choice of words.

[NicCo]

Mmmm.... you are a fool man.

Tobal, I hope you didn't really meant that, it sounds really bad and I hope it was just a bad choice of words.

uhmmm

If one, whoever he is, first time entering your home (just registered) start offending you and your works, it seems like an simply attack or a flame attempt


The Topic title itself open by tarakbumba

MIB packages v.s. other community packages

and mainly the phrase by tarakbumba

It is a disrespectful behaviour to other communities and packagers. It is insulting people. It is bad.

are not DIPLOMATIC at all, and are insulting us...


So, in my opinion, Tobal gave the right answer,
I would have done the same, maybe even worse...
Latin spirit we have, certainly not Anglo-Saxon phlegm!


Then there is also a good time to clarify ideas

bye, NicCo

[dubigrasu]

I would have done the same, maybe worse...

But you didn't...
You just said:

I think you are a little wrong:
this is the changelog part in gtk-theme-greenie-collection.spec...

As you can see the changelog is quite respectifull of GPL with all the credits given!

Which is a far better and diplomatic response and obviously a better starting point to:

Then there is also a good time to clarify ideas

[tarakbumba]

uhmmm

If one, whoever he is, first time entering your home (just registered) start offending you and your works, it seems like an simply attack or a flame attempt

The Topic title itself

MIB packages v.s. other community packages

and mainly the phrase

It is a disrespectful behaviour to other communities and packagers. It is insulting people. It is bad.

so, in my opinion, Tobal gave a right answer,
I would have done the same, maybe even worse...
Latin spirit we have, certainly not Anglo-Saxon phlegm!


Then there is also a good time to clarify ideas

bye, NicCo

I'm sorry if you felt offended. I don't mean that. Yep, i have just registered. But tell me, those packages are hosted on mib repositories and mib packages, so where should i tell my opinion and ask why? Where? At Mandriva Forums or Mandriva User.de forums? Where?

I also felt offended by that action. So should i use harsh words to you? Should i insult you?

Besides, i have written second post to expand my comments and why it is not a GPL related issue. Any new comment on that?

[NicCo]

@ dubigrasu

It is unnecessary fuel to the fire already kindled!
And this fire was already lit by Tarakbumba and Tobal...


bye, NicCo

[tobal]

Mmmmm.... I don't like this nonsense discussion, your name and e-mail is in the Changelog and so it's all ok, and there isn't any discussion.
I'm not going loose my time about that, so I'm not going to write more about that, ok?

Oh, fool is synonim of silly and so on. I'm very angry about your first thread because you accuse me about bad manners in my procedure, ok? What did you expect, I give you the reason and give you thanks?

Bye babie

[rugyada]

Hi tarakbumba, first of all welcome to MIB Forum.
And glad to see again our old friend dubigrasu.

But I have to fully agree with tobal.

I don't like this nonsense discussion

No need to go on with useless polemic dispute.

The content of first post was completely wrong.

Read here:

%changelog
* Sun Aug 15 2010 Cristobal Lopez <lopeztobal@gmail.com> 1.0-2mib2010.1
- By MIB.

* Tue Aug 10 2010 Atilla ÖNTAŞ <atilla_ontas@mandriva.org> 1.0-1mvt2010.1
+ Initial RPM

See reply from NicCo providing link to the src.rpm file:

Here the SRPM, so everyone can see:
http://mib.pianetalinux.org/MIB/2010.1/ ... .1.src.rpm

So, I think should be nice starting with your apologizing for your mistake.

Regards.

[tarakbumba]

Hi tarakbumba, first of all welcome to MIB Forum.
And glad to see again our old friend dubigrasu.

But I have to fully agree with tobal.

I don't like this nonsense discussion

No need to go on with useless polemic dispute.

The content of first post was completely wrong.

Read here:

%changelog
* Sun Aug 15 2010 Cristobal Lopez <lopeztobal@gmail.com> 1.0-2mib2010.1
- By MIB.

* Tue Aug 10 2010 Atilla ÖNTAŞ <atilla_ontas@mandriva.org> 1.0-1mvt2010.1
+ Initial RPM

See reply from NicCo providing link to the src.rpm file:

Here the SRPM, so everyone can see:
http://mib.pianetalinux.org/MIB/2010.1/ ... .1.src.rpm

So, I think should be nice starting with your apologizing for your mistake.

Regards.

Thank you rugyada.

Regarding on your quotes, this thread is indeed make sense. It is a ethical problem. It is a respecting others or not problem. It is respecting to Free Software problem. Did you ever read any other messages that i have posted?

Is there a better explanation to get some others work, use it as unmodified (nothing changed on those packages except some unneded spec file entries and changelog) and just rerelease with same format (rpm) for same users (Mandriva users) except it is GPL thing?


If i take [MIB] OSSIGENO themes and change just mib related things and release as my work is it true or ethical? Will you want to apologize from me?

Also packager told that i have used his packages and remove his name from changelog. I asked which packages and get no reply still.

If you want you can lock this topic but these are the facts. And no one show me i'm wrong, except quoting others messages; so until someone show me my wrong i won't apologize.

[NicCo]

Thank you rugyada.

Regarding on your quotes, this thread is indeed make sense. It is a ethical problem. It is a respecting others or not problem. It is respecting to Free Software problem. Did you ever read any other messages that i have posted?

Is there a better explanation to get some others work, use it as unmodified (nothing changed on those packages except some unneded spec file entries and changelog) and just rerelease with same format (rpm) for same users (Mandriva users) except it is GPL thing?


If i take [MIB] OSSIGENO themes and change just mib related things and release as my work is it true or ethical? Will you want to apologize from me?

Also packager told that i have used his packages and remove his name from changelog. I asked which packages and get no reply still.

If you want you can lock this topic but these are the facts. And no one show me i'm wrong, except quoting others messages; so until someone show me my wrong i won't apologize.

I didn't know this gtk-theme-greenie-collection package, but I can see

Summary: A collection of gtk themes with green color
License: GPL

URL: http://linuxlex.cz

It's not a work of turkish group, it's only a rpm port... or am I wrong?

From the .spec file, I can't see and realize that origin of this work it's of mvt group... so perhaps you forgot to write this main thing

Only if the origin of package is work (sources, I mean) of mvt group, You would be right:
Only then we could be wrong and so we could remove the package that brought the offense!!!

Otherwise you make a big confusion between creating (to be the author, I mean) a new program, a graphical theme or or any other new work, and action to package or repackage an existing program.

There is the same difference between a painter as an artist and a painter who paints the walls!

If i take [MIB] OSSIGENO themes and change just mib related things and release as my work is it true or ethical? Will you want to apologize from me?

So, gtk-theme-greenie-collection, is your work?
Are these sources yours, and are you the author?
http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/ ... ent=128879
http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/ ... ent=128360

MIB created from the scratch MIB Ossigeno themes, MIB Ossigeno V3, MIB LiveToFlash, MIB Covers, MIB Live DVD, MIB One, or even Music CD Promo, but in all these cases, their names are already understands their origin


I never left my house painter to paint the Sistine Chapel, and you?


bye, NicCo